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	<title>Comments on: Unlearning</title>
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	<link>http://edorigami.edublogs.org/2008/11/05/unlearning/</link>
	<description>ICT and Education</description>
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		<title>By: &#124; Educational Origami</title>
		<link>http://edorigami.edublogs.org/2008/11/05/unlearning/comment-page-1/#comment-382</link>
		<dc:creator>&#124; Educational Origami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 01:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edorigami.edublogs.org/?p=581#comment-382</guid>
		<description>[...] while ago I wrote a post on unlearning. This post received a number of replies and comments. I believe that we need to teach our students [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] while ago I wrote a post on unlearning. This post received a number of replies and comments. I believe that we need to teach our students [...]</p>
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		<title>By: &#124; Educational Origami</title>
		<link>http://edorigami.edublogs.org/2008/11/05/unlearning/comment-page-1/#comment-383</link>
		<dc:creator>&#124; Educational Origami</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 01:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edorigami.edublogs.org/?p=581#comment-383</guid>
		<description>[...] while ago I wrote a post on unlearning. This post received a number of replies and comments. I believe that we need to teach our students [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] while ago I wrote a post on unlearning. This post received a number of replies and comments. I believe that we need to teach our students [...]</p>
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		<title>By: andrewch</title>
		<link>http://edorigami.edublogs.org/2008/11/05/unlearning/comment-page-1/#comment-381</link>
		<dc:creator>andrewch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edorigami.edublogs.org/?p=581#comment-381</guid>
		<description>Bob,

many things change we all have seen the rapid change in software, I only have to look at microsofts string of office packages:
office 2000
office XP (2002)
office 2003
office 2007
They change regularly to provide better support for new OSes and also to provide income. 
We can not ethically teach our students something that we know will be obsolete by the time they leave us. Why should we focus on teaching the students to use a product.
Essentially what we must teach them are the Portable standards that we can apply to any package whether it is a typewriter, Microsoft office suite, word perfect, Google docs, Zoho documents, staroffice or open office. They consistent standards are the bread and butter of these principles. They things like:
-consistency and repetition
-left to right flow 
-Footers and headers
-readability and legibility
-suitability for the audience
-suitability for the purpose
-use of font styles, families, size, weight and types
-use of text enhancements - underline, reverse text, drop caps, pulled quotes
-appropriate use of colour
-appropriate use of whitespace
-text-image balance
-conventions for purpose - i.e. letter layout, papagraph structure

These are standards that apply across the board. 

Does this mean that all products are the same, are dull and boring?

No - a good product, and we are talking about a end product, has to suit the purpose and its audience each of these factors will be different depending on the target audience and the intended purpose.

This is what I mean by principles of word processing and these apply to any package, they are product independent.

Cheers

A</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob,</p>
<p>many things change we all have seen the rapid change in software, I only have to look at microsofts string of office packages:<br />
office 2000<br />
office XP (2002)<br />
office 2003<br />
office 2007<br />
They change regularly to provide better support for new OSes and also to provide income.<br />
We can not ethically teach our students something that we know will be obsolete by the time they leave us. Why should we focus on teaching the students to use a product.<br />
Essentially what we must teach them are the Portable standards that we can apply to any package whether it is a typewriter, Microsoft office suite, word perfect, Google docs, Zoho documents, staroffice or open office. They consistent standards are the bread and butter of these principles. They things like:<br />
-consistency and repetition<br />
-left to right flow<br />
-Footers and headers<br />
-readability and legibility<br />
-suitability for the audience<br />
-suitability for the purpose<br />
-use of font styles, families, size, weight and types<br />
-use of text enhancements &#8211; underline, reverse text, drop caps, pulled quotes<br />
-appropriate use of colour<br />
-appropriate use of whitespace<br />
-text-image balance<br />
-conventions for purpose &#8211; i.e. letter layout, papagraph structure</p>
<p>These are standards that apply across the board. </p>
<p>Does this mean that all products are the same, are dull and boring?</p>
<p>No &#8211; a good product, and we are talking about a end product, has to suit the purpose and its audience each of these factors will be different depending on the target audience and the intended purpose.</p>
<p>This is what I mean by principles of word processing and these apply to any package, they are product independent.</p>
<p>Cheers</p>
<p>A</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Bell</title>
		<link>http://edorigami.edublogs.org/2008/11/05/unlearning/comment-page-1/#comment-380</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 19:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edorigami.edublogs.org/?p=581#comment-380</guid>
		<description>When we start to describe the &quot;principles of word processing,&quot; at what level do when begin? What distinctions do we draw between various methods of achieving results?  Writers still jot down note on napkins, use typewriters to fill-in forms downloaded/printed from the web, and underline and capitalize headings like they needed to do on mechanical typewriters. When are these methods, now archaic, in conflict with the principles. For example, does a scan of a hastily handwritten note violate the principle of readability or is it an appropriate way to focus attention by its contrast with the mechanical computer fonts. Scanning a note was not possible using a typewriter. 

I think it is possible that some basic principles have been impacted by computer word processing. This makes the task of redefining principles of word processing a distinct task from word processing (writing down stuff) in general. 
oooo-la-la,
B-ob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When we start to describe the &#8220;principles of word processing,&#8221; at what level do when begin? What distinctions do we draw between various methods of achieving results?  Writers still jot down note on napkins, use typewriters to fill-in forms downloaded/printed from the web, and underline and capitalize headings like they needed to do on mechanical typewriters. When are these methods, now archaic, in conflict with the principles. For example, does a scan of a hastily handwritten note violate the principle of readability or is it an appropriate way to focus attention by its contrast with the mechanical computer fonts. Scanning a note was not possible using a typewriter. </p>
<p>I think it is possible that some basic principles have been impacted by computer word processing. This makes the task of redefining principles of word processing a distinct task from word processing (writing down stuff) in general.<br />
oooo-la-la,<br />
B-ob</p>
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		<title>By: tarot readers</title>
		<link>http://edorigami.edublogs.org/2008/11/05/unlearning/comment-page-1/#comment-375</link>
		<dc:creator>tarot readers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 09:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edorigami.edublogs.org/?p=581#comment-375</guid>
		<description>Nice post,Absolute agree:
&quot;The illiterate of the 21st Century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who can not learn unlearn and relearn.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post,Absolute agree:<br />
&#8220;The illiterate of the 21st Century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who can not learn unlearn and relearn.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Pedro</title>
		<link>http://edorigami.edublogs.org/2008/11/05/unlearning/comment-page-1/#comment-355</link>
		<dc:creator>Pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 19:30:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edorigami.edublogs.org/?p=581#comment-355</guid>
		<description>I love Google docs for its ugliness. It puts the focus on content.

Good content will always be good, but bad content is rubbish that can&#039;t be saved by an hour choosing fonts and borders. 

There are of course, many ways to present things better than Gdocs, and they can be free too. But Gdocs is brilliant for all the things we only THOUGHT mattered so much about MS Word and the like. 

Toni, people just manage what they know at the time and for some it took such a long time to climb up there, only to find they were on the wrong ladder all the time. When you were teaching content and context perhaps they were teaching &quot;click this menu, choose that option, then type.......&quot;
.. In which case a change in software is daunting.... and perhaps EXACTLY what&#039;s needed. But it&#039;ll hurt. You did well to walk away, but if you could have your time again, how could you have opened that person&#039;s possibility for change? Perhaps as twitter users who are confident and competent in the technology and change, we should consider our role in helping make that change for others. In those conversations we could be opening little doors, little windows. Then standing back to see who pops through for a look on the other side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love Google docs for its ugliness. It puts the focus on content.</p>
<p>Good content will always be good, but bad content is rubbish that can&#8217;t be saved by an hour choosing fonts and borders. </p>
<p>There are of course, many ways to present things better than Gdocs, and they can be free too. But Gdocs is brilliant for all the things we only THOUGHT mattered so much about MS Word and the like. </p>
<p>Toni, people just manage what they know at the time and for some it took such a long time to climb up there, only to find they were on the wrong ladder all the time. When you were teaching content and context perhaps they were teaching &#8220;click this menu, choose that option, then type&#8230;&#8230;.&#8221;<br />
.. In which case a change in software is daunting&#8230;. and perhaps EXACTLY what&#8217;s needed. But it&#8217;ll hurt. You did well to walk away, but if you could have your time again, how could you have opened that person&#8217;s possibility for change? Perhaps as twitter users who are confident and competent in the technology and change, we should consider our role in helping make that change for others. In those conversations we could be opening little doors, little windows. Then standing back to see who pops through for a look on the other side.</p>
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		<title>By: andrewch</title>
		<link>http://edorigami.edublogs.org/2008/11/05/unlearning/comment-page-1/#comment-354</link>
		<dc:creator>andrewch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 06:43:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edorigami.edublogs.org/?p=581#comment-354</guid>
		<description>There are so many alternatives available to us, but familiarity and lack of confidence are tying us to the old stables.
Don&#039;t get me wrong - THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THESE PRODUCTS - but how can anyone justify paying the premium we pay when there are FREE alternatives that do EXACTLY the same job.

I do mean it seriously that I think many of the products and I can single out the the Microsoft Office suite for one and Adobe&#039;s Photoshop for another are brilliant tools, well made, well considered premium tools. 

But when schools have to have cake stalls, galas and fairs to fund classroom resources, and we are buying premium tools when equally powerful (and in some cases more powerful) ones like open office, staroffice, neo-office and the GIMP are available for free or free to educations (staroffice) are the millions being miss spent?

We have blinkers on that, just like on the race horse, limit our vision to the track and nothing else. Outside of the track is a vast array of opportunities. Some are not good ones but, some like open office, its commercial (but free to education) big brother star office or for Mac - Neo Office  - provide a greatly reduced Total cost of ownership. Training should not be limited to those tools on the track. Its a little bit like limiting the books in a library.

Worth considering perhaps. Thank Toni andScott</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are so many alternatives available to us, but familiarity and lack of confidence are tying us to the old stables.<br />
Don&#8217;t get me wrong &#8211; THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THESE PRODUCTS &#8211; but how can anyone justify paying the premium we pay when there are FREE alternatives that do EXACTLY the same job.</p>
<p>I do mean it seriously that I think many of the products and I can single out the the Microsoft Office suite for one and Adobe&#8217;s Photoshop for another are brilliant tools, well made, well considered premium tools. </p>
<p>But when schools have to have cake stalls, galas and fairs to fund classroom resources, and we are buying premium tools when equally powerful (and in some cases more powerful) ones like open office, staroffice, neo-office and the GIMP are available for free or free to educations (staroffice) are the millions being miss spent?</p>
<p>We have blinkers on that, just like on the race horse, limit our vision to the track and nothing else. Outside of the track is a vast array of opportunities. Some are not good ones but, some like open office, its commercial (but free to education) big brother star office or for Mac &#8211; Neo Office  &#8211; provide a greatly reduced Total cost of ownership. Training should not be limited to those tools on the track. Its a little bit like limiting the books in a library.</p>
<p>Worth considering perhaps. Thank Toni andScott</p>
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		<title>By: woscholar</title>
		<link>http://edorigami.edublogs.org/2008/11/05/unlearning/comment-page-1/#comment-353</link>
		<dc:creator>woscholar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 06:17:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edorigami.edublogs.org/?p=581#comment-353</guid>
		<description>Our education service center is responsible for providing professional development for 96 school districts. The tech offerings over the summer ONLY included Office. Sad. Our kindergartners can do Office. Heck, we are moving on to OpenOffice. Most have not even noticed a difference. It has become a generic skill kids are learning quickly. We should all be doing more.  Thanks for the post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our education service center is responsible for providing professional development for 96 school districts. The tech offerings over the summer ONLY included Office. Sad. Our kindergartners can do Office. Heck, we are moving on to OpenOffice. Most have not even noticed a difference. It has become a generic skill kids are learning quickly. We should all be doing more.  Thanks for the post.</p>
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		<title>By: Toni Twiss</title>
		<link>http://edorigami.edublogs.org/2008/11/05/unlearning/comment-page-1/#comment-352</link>
		<dc:creator>Toni Twiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 03:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://edorigami.edublogs.org/?p=581#comment-352</guid>
		<description>I am glad I finally have a place to vent this story I am about to share...

So... I was at a meeting recently... where the man who does the deals between Microsoft and the MoE spoke...  He spoke about the way that the Ministry is looking to consider other alternatives to Microsoft - so cautioned everyone about going to &#039;the cloud&#039;.  He talked about how if the Ministry chose not to fund Microsoft products, then Microsoft would have to approach schools individually and schools would end up paying more for Microsoft products...

YAY! I thought - I don&#039;t use microsoft anyway.

So chit chatting with teachers afterwards and one lady says to me. Wouldn&#039;t it be terrible if the Ministry stopped funding Microsoft? To which I replied - not that would be fantastic I don&#039;t use it anyway and think of all the ways you could spend that extra money.

She told me she thought that it was terrible and that because I didn&#039;t want it it would cost schools like hers more.

I said to her well there are a lot more options than just Microsoft and &#039;the cloud&#039; and started to list... but she interrupted and said....

Don&#039;t you think our teachers have gone through enough having to learn one system and then expecting them to change is just too much.

I did the only thing I could bring myself to do.  I walked away.

Thanks for giving me a place to share my story.  I will move on from it now!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am glad I finally have a place to vent this story I am about to share&#8230;</p>
<p>So&#8230; I was at a meeting recently&#8230; where the man who does the deals between Microsoft and the MoE spoke&#8230;  He spoke about the way that the Ministry is looking to consider other alternatives to Microsoft &#8211; so cautioned everyone about going to &#8216;the cloud&#8217;.  He talked about how if the Ministry chose not to fund Microsoft products, then Microsoft would have to approach schools individually and schools would end up paying more for Microsoft products&#8230;</p>
<p>YAY! I thought &#8211; I don&#8217;t use microsoft anyway.</p>
<p>So chit chatting with teachers afterwards and one lady says to me. Wouldn&#8217;t it be terrible if the Ministry stopped funding Microsoft? To which I replied &#8211; not that would be fantastic I don&#8217;t use it anyway and think of all the ways you could spend that extra money.</p>
<p>She told me she thought that it was terrible and that because I didn&#8217;t want it it would cost schools like hers more.</p>
<p>I said to her well there are a lot more options than just Microsoft and &#8216;the cloud&#8217; and started to list&#8230; but she interrupted and said&#8230;.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t you think our teachers have gone through enough having to learn one system and then expecting them to change is just too much.</p>
<p>I did the only thing I could bring myself to do.  I walked away.</p>
<p>Thanks for giving me a place to share my story.  I will move on from it now!</p>
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